PTSD 911 Documentary Film- Director Conrad Weaver

Hi everyone, and welcome to this week's episode event, During the Badge podcast. I'm host Jerry Dean Lund, and I don't want you to miss an upcoming episode, so please hit that subscribe button. And while your phone's out, please do me a favor and give us a review on iTunes or our Apple Podcast. It says, Hey, this podcast has a great message, and we should send it out to more people.

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Or please feel free to reach out to me with a message on [00:02:00] Instagram at Jerry Fire and Fuel. That's my personal one or at and during the Badge podcast. My very special guest today is Conrad Weaver. He's an award-winning documentary filmmaker who's made a movie called PTSD . It's an incredible movie.

You've got to. Conrad has done some sensational things in his life, but I love this quote by Conrad. He says telling stories that matter is so much more fulfilling than telling stories that entertain my responsibility in the world is to leave it a better place than when I arrive. If the films I produce can play a role in that, then I've been successful and he truly has.

Wait until you hear what Conrad has done with this documentary. It's taken him a couple years to make this, and he followed some pretty amazing people to do. So let's jump right in this episode, why [00:03:00] Conrad talks about the movie and what his motivation was behind it. Conrad Weaver, how you doing Condra?

I'm good. Uh, it's been, uh, to, to New Year, new Times, new Adventures ahead, right? Yeah. Plenty of new adventures ahead. Uh, hopefully all great new adventures ahead, . Yeah, for sure. Not, not like we had in 22 and a few years earlier, right. . Yeah. There's, there's always some crazy world dynamics that are, uh, happening and, uh, yeah, just how about how, how we navigate them.

Conrad introduce the audience. Um, you know, tell them a little bit about. Yeah, so I'm a filmmaker. I live in Maryland, just about an hour and a half northwest of Washington, DC And, uh, about, oh, maybe 10 years ago I started making documentaries and really discovered, uh, what I love to do. And I also have a family.

I have a wife and, and two adult kids, and two, two granddaughter. So that I'm, I'm very proud [00:04:00] of. And, uh, but yeah, I've been making films for about 10 years and, you know, I went from producing some agriculture related films that took me to the west, took me out to California and, and a bunch of states out in the west.

And then all those travels, my wife was like, can you find something at home? And so in, you know, two, and she didn't really say that, but I could sense that, you know, yeah, I could sense, okay. She's ready for me to stay at home for a while. Uh, so I, in 2018, I finished a film called Heroin's Grip. It's a story about the opioid crisis, and it was, you know, right here in our hometown.

And as, as in many hometowns, you know, has been impacted by the opioid crisis. So I did a deep dive into that and for two years I hung out with people I never thought I'd hang out with. You know, not only did I hang out with drug users, but also the recovery people and first responders and law enforcement and, and.

So as a part of that, [00:05:00] I was invited to do ride-alongs with law enforcement and with the fire and e m s. And one day we were, I was with a police officer and we were riding along and the, the, the radio call came in, Hey, there's an overdose. And not that I was wanting an overdose, but I was wondering an overdose, you know what I mean?

Sure. I was making a movie about it. Right. And we went to the overdose and it was a fatal overdose. And not something that I'm accustomed to seeing and experiencing. And so that started that conversation in my head first about, okay, what did I deceive? What did I experience? And then, okay, how does that impact first responders?

Because the men and women on scene were kind of like, you know, just, just normal talk, you know, sometimes even laughing a little bit and mm-hmm. . And so I asked the officer about that and she was like, well, it's kind of how we cope with these things because it is just another Tuesday. But yeah. You know, we just deal with it and yeah.

And so that really got me into studying. Okay. How did, how do these [00:06:00] traumatic scenes impact first responders and took me down the road to making the movie that we're releasing now. Yeah. What drew you to documentaries? I'm a huge documentary fan. And so like, what drew you to do that type of filmmaking instead of, you know, the various others that are out there?

Yeah. You know, I, I love true stories and I guess it comes from my childhood. My father was a pastor and we'd often have guest, you know, guest pastors or preachers from around the world come stay with us. And me and my brothers and sisters, we would sit on the steps and overhear their convers conversations.

And it was mostly stories. Stories about their travel, stories about their, the things that they've been involved in. So that love of story has been with me all my life. Well, although fiction is great, fiction movies are fantastic. Sure, there's some amazing fiction movies. Um, there's just something about a story that it's based on truth and based on reality, [00:07:00] that even, even movies that go to the theater, and I don't go very often these days, but I tend to gravitate toward those films that are based on a true story.

And so the documentary. Way of storytelling it, it kind of evolved from some of the projects I worked on early on in my career as a filmmaker. I was, you know, doing corporate work and I was doing, you know, stories about nonprofits that are impacting the communities and those kind of interviews slash b-roll footage that, you know, really is compelling was in, was interesting to me.

And so, I took that in a documentary, took it to the next level and just said, okay, how can I take this interesting story and shoot an interview and then create a story around that interview that is interesting and that is compelling and also that makes an impact. Uh, I feel that. Corporate work is great.

I get paid, I get, you know, [00:08:00] it pays the bills. Yeah. But it's not as impactful as a story that I can create that people see and they go, wow, I didn't know that. Or, that's interesting. Or I need to do something about that. Uh, and so, That's what took me down that road of, of telling stories in a documentary form because, uh, my very first documentary was a story that many people haven't heard about.

It was called The Great American Wheat Harvest and Not Weed Harvest, wheat Harvest. had someone once asked me like a plane. Dude, dude, you're doing a film about the weed harvest? No, no. About the weed harvest . These are, these are farmers that travel from Texas to Montana. And across the plains harvesting wheat for, for big, you know, large scale farms.

And they live in their RVs. They travel on the road, they live, you know, on the road for six months out of the year. And we traveled with them for two years and I told that story and it was so much fun and I got to [00:09:00] meet amazing people and I was like, wow. I could do this again. And so I did. I made a second film about, it was called Thirsty Land, and it was a story about the drought in the American West and got to meet more farmers and got to meet the, the head of Metropolitan Water in Los Angeles.

You know, I met, I interviewed some governors and interviewed these amazing people, and I've become friends with these people that they, my subjects in my film not only become the are are my subjects, but they've also become friends. And so that's what's enriching to me is the friendships I've developed over the years that are with me to this day.

You know, 10 years ago when the Great American Wheat Harvest came out, some of those people I didn't ever know about them. Now that they're some of my closest friends, Yeah. And they still call me and I still call them and check up on 'em and see how they're, how was Harvest this year? Was it, did a sucker, was it great?

You know, and they can go both ways, you know? Right, [00:10:00] right. So, so filmmaking like this has really enriched my life. Has it made me wealthy? No, but it's made me a better person. It's made me a better human being, and it's given me a rich life, and that's, that's why I do it. Yeah, I, I love that because it's, it's similar to podcasting in some ways.

At least that's the way, or the reason why I got into podcasting was I love these fascinating stories about people and I, you know how they. Conquer these different battles that they're going through. And, you know, and I, I've learned so much, so much from them, you know, and it's that, just that story and the human emotion that just captures me.

Yeah. So I can imagine doing a, a film like this, this documentary on first responders and how. Impactful that is to you. Yeah. You know, and I think, you know, go, going on what you said there about the, the impact. So the [00:11:00] folks that we meet are generally people that are really, really passionate about the subject.

And so, you know, I met this rancher when I was working on my film, thirsty Land and another farmer up in Montana. I was like, Conrad, do you know Pat Oto? I. No. Who's he? He's, well, he's a rancher in Wyoming. You should meet him. And so we were introduced, and now Pat is one of my best friends. He owns a huge ranch in Wyoming.

You know, they, they have 7,000 head of sheep and, uh, you know, 800 some head of cattle, and they graze on 600,000 acres of b BLM land across. Mountains in the, you know, central Wyoming and, and he's passionate about water. He's passionate about the environment. He's passionate about, you know, leaving a legacy for his grandchildren, you know, so they still have food and water, and so I get to meet these people who are interesting.

and yet they're passionate about the subject that we're talking about. And it's the same thing with, with my [00:12:00] film p t s D 9 1, 1. You know, I've met first responders from all across the us, um, who are passionate about the subject, who, who feel that we must do something about this. We must save lives. We must change the culture in our first responder community.

And so that's another reason that I love doing these things because I meet these people who are so passionate about, about the subjects that I dive. Yeah. I mean, right. Living your life with passion is, is really, is is everything to me. I mean, there's passions, right? In your relationship, the things you do for work.

Like everything for me focuses around some sort of, of, of passion. And passion can easily, you know, you know, love, you know, it's, you know, yeah. Same, same type of thing. These men and women that are, I'm sure feature in your film, they really love their job and want to share those experiences and without.

You know, doing a film like this, we lose their stories. Yeah, for sure. And, and you know, [00:13:00] along with passion comes purpose. And I think that's where, yeah, I have discovered purpose. And in fact, I have a podcast called Explore Purpose and we, we, I interview folks, we talk about purpose. What led you to discovering that purpose?

And I've discover. When I'm living my life with purpose, I have greater impact because I'm, I'm in my wheelhouse. I'm doing the things that I was created to do, and, and when I can do that, then I can have greater impact in the world. And, and I think the folks that are in my film, some of 'em are still discovering that, or, and they've had to.

Perhaps changed their focus because they've changed it. They've lost their job, some of them, mm-hmm. . And so they've had, they're, they are now in the process of rediscovering purpose and meaning. And so, uh, without giving the whole movie away. That's th those are some of the themes that we, we talk about As you know, when you are in a position of laying down your, your badge and your uniform, whether it's by choice or by mandate, , [00:14:00] you know, there's a sense of loss there.

Mm-hmm. for, for many folks. And, and now is, who am I if I, if I'm not a police officer, if I'm not a firefighter, if I'm not a dispatcher, who am I? And I think helping people discover that, you know, those are some things that you do. They're, they can be your purpose, but. They're not necessarily who you are. I think that's an important distinction that needs to be made, you know, in people's lives and to evaluate themselves to say, is what I do, is that my purpose or, or do I have, or am I here for a greater purpose than just what I do?

Yeah. Yeah, that is so true. Um, I've gone through different, you know, trials and tribulations through my life where I've definitely had to question who I am or. Have I let this job consume me to the point that I really don't know who I am anymore, or, and if they've given up everything around me to, to do this [00:15:00] job that I'm so passionate about.

But yeah, it's, it's a, it's a cha, it's a challenge to find that balance. . Mm-hmm. for sure. And, and, and then you know, the stress of, you know, keeping a job, maintaining a job, paying the bills and all that stuff. A, it adds up. And sometimes we can get lost if we're not, if we're not clear on our purpose and our mission, and we can get lost in all of that.

And, and we start making choices. Aren't healthy, we start making choices that lead us down a path of destruction. And, you know, it, it, so a, a piece in my film, we interview a police chief in, in, in Texas and he says, you know, as a chief, it's my response. I, I'm responsible for all the people into my care. So at that agency, they have over 300 sworn officers and he said, you know, I see these.

Younger officers come in and they're full of energy and they're full of excitement and life and, and vigor. And in a few years I see him [00:16:00] gain weight and I see him start to drink more. And now they're going through a divorce and, and there's these challenges. And he said, it's my responsibility as a chief to take care of my people.

And if I see that they're struggling in these areas, then that's my responsibility. Yeah. And I think that's a mentality in. That isn't universal, right? It's like, you know, I'm the chief and you do what I say, or you know, if you can't, if you can't handle it, you know, get out. You know it. It's not that.

Responsibility. Okay. I want to help my people make good choices. I wanna help my people thrive and prosper. That's what we need. That's the kind of leaders we need. Right? And I'm, I'm hoping with this film, we can, we can demonstrate that through the, the agencies that we use as case studies in the film and that.

Chiefs and leaders in first responder communities can see it and say, you know what? I think I need to change how I've been thinking about leadership. I need to [00:17:00] change how I've been thinking about handling, you know, how I, how I focus on mental health and wellness. Maybe I haven't focused on that. Mm-hmm.

and perhaps some leaders haven't focused on for themselves, you know? Right. They've been drinking. They've, they keep the flask of, you know, in the bottom drawer, you know, , , and try to make it through the day, and I think. That we want to encourage leaders in the first responder community to take a step up and to, to take action, to, to help the people thrive and prosper so that, you know, first responders can live, you know, work out their entire career, not have to, I mean, when the average.

End of a career for a law enforcement officer is 62. And that's also the average age of death for a law enforcement officer that tells you something's not right. Yeah. You know, and that needs to change. Yeah. So, and hoping this, hoping this film will help move the needle in the right [00:18:00] direction. I'm sure it will like the more the, these type of films and.

Come out and more information definitely moves people to, to create change. And I, I see change happening in this industry. Um, it's happening. It's happening I think, slower than we want it. To happen. Sure. But it, it, it takes a huge cultural shift for these, for agencies to make that investment into programs that are gonna help people, you know, maintain their health and mental wellness throughout their career.

Mm-hmm. and it's, it's costly, right? It's costly to, to do that, to make that investment. Sure. But I think it's, it's a great investment because people. The best investment you can make in, in your absolutely business are your hiring for police and firefighters and you know, military and stuff like that.

That's right. It's the people that make that job or make, you know, the city successful or whatever successful. It's the people. It comes down to the people and how you serve them as a [00:19:00] leader. . Yeah. You know, when the co the, when the issue of cost comes up, I like to compare it to when you buy a car, you, you buy a brand new, you know, Ford F-150 loaded at within the first 5,000 miles.

What do you do? Yeah, I maintain it. , you change the oil, right? Yeah. You take care of it. You put in the right kind of fuel you Yeah. You, you know, you do all the things to keep that thing humming because man, you're paying a, making a big payment for it. If you didn't pay cash for it, you're paying, you know, 70 $800,000.

$800 a month for it, you know, for the payment. So you're gonna maintain, you're gonna spend the money upfront to maintain it because if you, you know, if you don't, you know, 15,000 miles later you're gonna have some kind of thing going on with your engine and you're gonna have to tear the whole thing apart, and that's gonna cost you a lot of money.

Well, it's the same thing with our bodies and our mind. If we spend the money up front to maintain. If I eat the right things, if I, if I work [00:20:00] out, if I, you know, watch what my visual intake is, if I, mm-hmm. , you know, take care of my brain. In the long run, I'm, I'm gonna have fewer problems than if I just do whatever.

I agree. If you're an agency and you spend the money to have resources upfront to help those officers, to help those firefighters, those dispatchers, those first responders, to help them deal with the traumas that they faced, if you put that in place up. It's gonna cost you a lot less than try to fix them in the, in the backend and try to have to recruit new people to replace these people that either left or died or, you know, didn't, didn't make it to the end.

It's gonna cost a lot more money. Especially when they're, you know, working city budgets and county budgets and, oh, how can we spend $50,000 on a program for first responders? You know, we have this issue going on over [00:21:00] here. Here are five tips. If you're feeling stuck in your life still, one, take full responsibility of your life.

Don't be that victim anymore. You have to get past that. Number two, praise and enjoy the process. Focus on the journey When things get tough, focus on the end where you're headed and why you're headed there. If you truly know those little things are not gonna knock you off your track. Number three. Become anti-fragile Once again, don't let those little things knock you down.

Learn a breathing process though you can get through them and not get stuck in that moment. Number four, cut out the crappy friends that are sucking the life outta you because you can't excel if you're around a bunch of crappy friends that are not gonna help you excel. And number five, you need to cultivate grit and perseverance.

Knowing your journey and having it written down and having a destination is going to keep you on track and help [00:22:00] you with that grit and perseverance on getting you to where you want to be. Now let's jump right back into this episode and, and turning that $50,000 may save them a 5 million lawsuit later.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It, our bodies are, Like I, when you're talking about this, I think, and you're talking about the truck and everything, you're trying to maintain performance in a lot of ways. Like you spend a lot of time and money investing in people to get 'em to a certain level of performance, and I think you still have to spend money to have them maintain their performance through their career.

This career is. Not a sprint. I tell like my new guys all the time, it's a, it's a marathon and you gotta treat your body like this is a marathon. You have in the state of Utah. You have to work 25 years to like collect your pension. Mm-hmm. , it's is a long time

and that's a long time to like keep yourself at this high level when we know, we see so [00:23:00] many traumatic things that may bring us down, unfortunately. And do we have the tools to minimize those up and downs, you know? And I think tools like the, this film Could, is, is a tool, right? It's it's a tool. Yeah, absolutely.

This, this, and this is, and we're actually, uh, we we're, so we created the film, the film's done, but we're actually creating a toolkit to go with the film. That we're gonna be offering later this year in, I think in August, it's gonna be made available with the, the film and additional resources surrounding the film that agencies can use as a toolkit, as a training, you know, for their, for their members.

And so we're gonna, we're working on that now and hope that we'll be ready by August to deliver that. Uh, when it's, when, when it's already. That's amazing. I'm, I'm glad to see you take it. Just. Pa not just a film, but pass the film into creating a tool cuz that's where, right, you're, you're gonna make more of an impact and that, that passion comes in.

Right? [00:24:00] Making this tool of a film and tool a, a kit that these men and women can use to be successful. Yeah. And for those who don't know much about the film, basically I'll just give you the, the, the, the quick snapshot of it. So yeah, we, we follow, we, we track with three first responders, a firefighter, a police officer, and a dispatcher.

And we track with them through a, a couple of years on their journey to wellness. And that journey has many ups and downs. And, uh, we don't wrap it up in a pretty boat at the end and say, Hey, they're all fixed. Because, uh, as long as they're heart's beating, there's always a chance to, things are gonna go sideways.

And sometimes they do, and we don't shirk away from that. But then we also, we wanna show that. Hey, it's okay to raise your hand and say, I'm, I'm not okay. I, I need, I need help. I need a, I need a hand up. And I think that's been the challenge in the first responder community that, you know, first responders are the helpers.

You know, first responders are the ones who respond to everybody else's [00:25:00] emergencies, and it's harder for a helper to say, I need help. Mm-hmm. . And we hope that through these stories of these first responders, that people can realize that, you know, what, if, if Maddie can, you know, raise his hand and, and go get the help that he needs for his, Addiction and for his, his issues.

And maybe I can too. And then we bring in, uh, experts, uh, who are psychologists and, and therapists who talk about, uh, the kind of the, the, the nuances of P T S D and, and the d in that word sometimes is controversial. We, we also talk about injury, a post-traumatic. Uh, but, uh, we, we kind of help people understand what that means, what it means to have that, that disorder.

What, what, what happens in the brain when, when, when these traumas impact it. And so we kind of unpack that, and then we also bring in agencies and we highlight agencies that are doing things. Good. Uh, there's no one perfect. [00:26:00] There's no perfect agency. Sure. Uh, but these are agencies that we've discovered that are doing amazing things, and some of 'em, even at the academy level where they're training more than just a four hour class, like, oh, you'll see stuff.

This is a, a deep dive, you know, into, here's some tools in your toolbox that you can use three years from now when you go on that critical scene and you're impacted by that fatality or, or, That that thing that happens here are some tools that you start using these now, you'll be ready when that day comes.

And so we highlight those things in this film and we really want, this film is really primarily designed for first responders, but it's also designed to help regular civilians like myself better understand first responders. Cause I think that's critical. Sure. Uh, we need support. First responders need support of the.

Uh, of, of everyday citizens, uh, especially in those areas where you have a rural fire [00:27:00] station that's a, you know, it's a volunteer fire station. They're always raising money, right? For, yeah. For the, for the next pieces of equipment or for whatever, uh, we need to support. And, and these days, you know, law enforcement, as we know, has been under fire from all different angles and.

We need to support our, our law enforcement brothers and sisters because they're out there doing their job. They're out there on the streets in danger many times. And if we need to show them support because they face, uh, incredible dangers, they face incredible challenges. Uh, you know, when that call comes in and there's.

An active shooter, you know, the heart rate comes up and the just all the, all the stuff lights up and, and they need to be able to know that there are citizens in the world who support them, who encourage them. And so this film, I think will shed new light to the average citizen on what first responders face and, and how they deal with these things.

So, [00:28:00] so hopefully people can, uh, can check it out once it comes to your area. Yeah. Yeah. I will certainly do my best to get that out to everybody and I will be excited. Waiting to watch it as well. I mean, two years to make a film. That's a lot of time and dedication, like, yeah, it was actually more closer to three years.

I think the idea was kind of hatched in late 2018. Really didn't start working on it in earnest until late 2019. And then, and Covid hit, uh, which. In a way was a mixed blessing because I was basically stuck here in my office and, and we built relationships via Zoom with a lot of people and we were able to, uh, You know, build a lot of the foundation for the film just through Zoom and, uh, once we were able to travel again, then I was able to hit the road and, and go out there.

But yeah, it was, you know, three years of my life that I've done a deep dive into the first responder community and [00:29:00] I've met all shapes and sizes of first responders and, uh, just had some fascinating stories. And it's challenging to, to gather these stories and then figure out, okay, what's the story we want to.

and, and you know, You know, without offending that person that you spent a day with, you know, doing interviews and you have to say, you know, I'm sorry, we really didn't put you in the film. And I had to do that a couple times and it always kind of hurts. But, um, we were very specific on Little Story we wanna tell, and we kind of, and with the help of my co-producer, Nancy, we, we, we narrowed it down to these three individuals that we follow.

And, uh, but we also then found other ones that we put snippets of their story in. So just short little segments that say, you know, first responders are more than just these three people. There's also, they deal with this and they deal with that. And so we kind of bring those stories in as well. Uh, and it, it's a exciting [00:30:00] process.

It's challenging, frustrating sometimes. Um, and, you know, There's, there's, uh, always the financial side. That's always a challenge. We're always raising money. Yeah. And trying to, you know, pay the bills, try to, you know, buy my next flight to wherever and, and, uh, but you know, we've had some amazing sponsors come up.

Uh, the National Alliance on Mental Illness is, is our top sponsor and they partnered with us to make this film. And we also have, uh, a newer. Top sponsor and that's, uh, lighthouse Health and Wellness. Oh, yeah. Uh, they're, they have an app for first responders, and so they are, they're actually our premier sponsor in the Dallas area, and now they've come on as a, as a gold level sponsor for the film and, And, uh, we're in talks about things further down the road with them as well.

So, uh, bringing on organizations like that to partner with us is, is meaningful, not only because it gives us the resources to be able to do this, but it helps them get their [00:31:00] product or their, their message out to the world as well. Right. And so we are looking for, you know, sponsors to sponsor our, our summer tour of the film.

And if anyone is interested to work with us, you know, we're gonna be going to 25. Across the country, uh, on a, uh, slow roll. We're riding bicycles across the country. Oh, wow. , uh, yeah, and starting in Oregon. Ending up in Maryland. And, uh, we're going to 25 cities between May and July, uh, across the country and bringing the film, and we're looking for, uh, for sponsors to help us with that and, uh, and partner with us.

So. Very cool. I hope hopefully some listeners out there know some people that can step up and help you with that. I wanna know, what was for you, the most shocking thing that maybe you learned about first, first responders? Hmm. Yeah, so I think, or maybe something you just learned that, I mean, it doesn't have to be shocking.

Yeah. Yeah. I think the big thing is, [00:32:00] is. You know, one of the things that I learned is how close knit the brotherhood and sisterhood of these organizations are. You know, when you're in the trenches, you gotta have, you gotta know that someone has your back, right? And when you're. You know, 30 feet up on a ladder, you gotta know that the guy down below holding the ladder is gonna hold the ladder for you.

And while you do whatever you gotta do with that burning house, you know, if you're going to a call in the, you know, the back alley of, you know the hood and you gotta know that you got some people backing you up, you know? Right. And so that closeness develops. Um, but then also, It's what's surprising to me is a lot of the trauma that has affected first responders doesn't always come from the scenes, right?

Doesn't always come from that call. A lot of times it [00:33:00] comes from management. It comes from the internal struggle, uh, within an agency. And that's sad. And that's a sign of, that's a sign of leadership or a lack of leadership. And that's why, you know, one of the officer, one of the chiefs that's in our film, uh, chief Neil Gang outta Pinnell, California, he's a huge advocate of it, starts at the.

You gotta have leaders that have a vision for, for, for caring for their people. And to me it's, it's sad when officers are quitting or officers are fired or they're resigning or, uh, uh, some die by suicide because of the stuff that happens internally. Right. And it doesn't have to be that way, you know? And that's.

Sometimes you have this beautiful looking facade. You know, we have an agency, we all, we're all brothers and sisters, but man, you, you let pull [00:34:00] back the curtain , and you can see there's all kinds of crap going on behind the scenes that isn't always pretty. And that's, and that to me as a citizen, that's, that's sad to hear.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It, it's. Happens far too more often. You know, I think people don't really understand that part of, definitely about this job, of how much behind the scenes type of things are happening and where it puts you in your, in your head space, you know, responding to calls and doing other other things.

You know, it, it's definitely a, a total game changer on what's going on within your organization. Far as leader. Yeah. You know, I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I know the, the F O P, the Fraternal Order of Police put out a survey recently, I think maybe a year ago I saw it. That what, what those top stressors are, who's in an agency?

And the number one was that internal, internal conflict. Yeah. You know, and that's like, wow. That, you know, wasn't, it wasn't the fatal call they [00:35:00] were on, or the shooting shooting they were on, it was that internal conflict that, uh, was happening within the. Yeah. And the, and it's hard to deal with that because what are the tools that you have to deal with that?

Yeah. That's, that's a challenge. You know, that's, that that comes down to leadership. It comes down to, you know, and sometimes as if you're, you know, a lower ranking officer or first responder, you know, it, it, it's first taking care of yourself, you know, is starting with you doing all the right things, you know, doing, doing the necessary things to take care of your own mind, in your own body, your own life, and then to lead.

You know, to, to, if you find a resource, Hey, you know what, this, this is a great book. Maybe you can share it with your fellow, fellow officers or fellow workers is, Hey, this is a book I that helped me and perhaps that lieutenant or that, you know, sergeant's going, Hey, what are you guys reading? [00:36:00] And, and you peak that interest and oh, and so, and pretty soon it kinda works its way up through the ranks.

And, but it all, it starts with the individual. It starts, I'm responsible for me. You know, I'm gonna start with me. I'm gonna eat right. I'm gonna, you know, lay off the alcohol. Um, yeah, I, I can have a drink now and then, unless it's like a, a serious problem. I'm going to exercise, I'm gonna take care of my family.

I'm gonna make that a priority first. And it's something that even as a filmmaker, I work hard at. Yeah, and I've, I've read some amazing books and listened to some amazing podcasts just about self-care and about taking care of me first because I was at a point in my life where I didn't really know my purpose.

I didn't know where I wanted to go, and I was struggling with stuff. I was struggling in business, I was struggling with that, the work I was doing, and, and I took a seven day class. It was an intensive, you know, [00:37:00] class that had cost me about 500 bucks, seven days. In this class that helped me reshape my thinking.

And, uh, David Bayer was the guy who was teaching this. And it was, it was a whole new concept for me. Uh, and I'm still learning from that. I took that about five years ago, but I'm still learning from that. And I try to feed my brain every day things that, that are healthy, that are good. Uh, you know, I, I wake up and, and as much as, as often as possible, start my day with g.

Yeah, and I'm thankful to be alive, thankful. I had a bed to sleep in, had a roof over my head, you know, thankful that I have a family. And just start with that, those gratitude. And so I think all what we're talking about, it starts with the individual. We start with ourselves first, and if I'm taking care of me, you're taking care of you.

We together can impact those above us and we can impact those around us as. Yeah. And that's the, that's the beauty right about [00:38:00] film and, and documentary is, is capturing a lot of that. I would imagine you probably had to build up some trust, you know, with all these people that you worked with in the first responder role because maybe seeing an outsider coming in and wanting to tell their story would be like something they wouldn't want to.

Yeah, for sure. You know that. And that takes time. It takes time. And I know just this last night I was on a podcast with Maddie, the firefighter in our film, and, and he was talking about that from his perspective. And he said, you know, when we first approached him, he, he said, I've been approached by a number of people about telling my story.

And, and he just had a lot of good things to say about our relationship and how he and I have now developed this closeness, you know, o of trust and. because there was a point in time when Maddie called me and he said, he said, Conrad, um, you probably don't want me in your film anymore. I picked up again, you know, I started using it again.

Yeah. [00:39:00] And I said, Maddie, that's the story. That's the story of, of being a first responder. It's not, you know, everything's, you, you went to treatment, you went to therapy, and now everything's cool for the rest of your life. No, it's this high and low. And so yeah, it takes time to develop that trust. Um, and I learned that lesson early on when I was in my filmmaking career, when I was, when I was doing my first documentary with farmers, you know, F farmers in Hollywood don't really jive too much, you know,

And so I'm not Hollywood. I let them know upfront that I, I'm not Hollywood. In fact, I had to tell the farmers that, uh, you know, I grew up on a dairy farm. I did, I, my grandfather was a dairy farmer, and that's where I worked every summer. And once I told the farmers that, they were like, oh, okay, so you get.

And I said, yeah, for the most part, I, I, I, I do, I get you. And so that kind of built that trust. But it took a while. [00:40:00] I remember coming to, uh, one of the harvest crews and at first it was like, oh, watch out, you know, Conrad's here with his camera, you know, watch what you say. And after the second summer it was like, oh, Conrad's here.

It's great to see you, man. You know, it was just that camaraderie and, and I felt the same thing with these first responders. It's like, you know, at first it was kind. Timid and how, how do we handle this? But after a while it was just like, it's just Conrad, you know? He's here, he's a friend. And that's what I really work hard at doing, is becoming a friend.

You have to be careful though, because sometimes you can, as a filmmaker, I, I still wanna remain objective. Yeah. I wanna be able to tell that story and in a way that, uh, is, is authentic and so I have to be careful. So, yeah, there's a fine line there, but it's definitely a trust building, uh, exercise and that I've had to develop over the years and how to do that.

And, and so [00:41:00] yeah, I, I enjoy that. Yeah. It trust is because once you trust somebody, right, you can be yourself and I'm sure being on film and over, you know, an expend extended period of time. Without having that trust, you're not really gonna be yourself. And you're probably, as a filmmaker, not gonna really capture the things you really want to capture.

And the same thing in the podcast, right? There's still have to build this quick level of trust, so we can talk about maybe some things that are a little bit harder to talk about that maybe you wouldn't talk about with other people, you know? And that level of trust allowed me to, and I won't give away the whole thing, but when you watch the film, you see the opening, the opening two minutes.

It's gripping and not because I made it and because I cut it right or edited it, but it was because I was there and Maddie allowed me to roll the camera in a time when he was having a really, really hard time, and I would not have had the, [00:42:00] the privilege, the opportunity to capture that if that were the first day on.

Yeah, you know, I could see that I would not, I would not have even felt comfortable, you know, saying, Maddie, can I turn my camera on? You know, it, it, it was like, oh, yeah, yeah, of course you can, you know, and that, but if it would've been the first day, I wouldn't have even got the camera out of the case, you know, for that particular event.

So, uh, it does take a level of trust and, and sometimes it takes, you have to hang out without the. and you just have to be, and you just have to be present. Um, sometimes you lose stuff that way. Yeah. Sometimes you don't capture everything. There's many times I was like, oh, I wish I'd had my camera. I wish I'd been rolling, filmed there, you know?

But, It's those moments that where you build that trust and camaraderie that they can begin to say, uh, I [00:43:00] trust you enough to tell you the hardest thing that I ever had to experience. You know, and, and I take that very seriously. Um, I take that opportunity very seriously and, um, treat that, uh, very careful.

And not to, uh, just use that as a, you know, a, as the thing that draws people to the movie. Yeah. You know, I, I want to tell the authentic story and so sometimes, sometimes you have to put the camera down, you know, it's that challenge of, that's been, I think journalists over the years have always had that challenge of do.

put my camera down and help the child who is suffering and malnourished you, you, you nourish. Mm-hmm. or do I watch them die and, and photograph it for the Pulitzer Prize? What do I do? Yeah. It's that, is that kind of a challenge, you know, and sometimes I face that, not that I've ever win a Pulitzer Prize, but I, [00:44:00] I just, I face that.

Do I film this or do I, or, or am I present, which is more, I. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes that's, sometimes it's one, sometimes it's the other. Yeah. I could, I could definitely see that, um, being present in those moments is. probably very rewarding for you. Uh, you'll miss some, some footage, but like you're gained a bond with another human.

Then on a, on a, on a different level, uh, you know when people are sharing their hard times and you, I think that's one thing about first responders, you're kind of trauma bonding together. You're going through, excuse me, going through the crap and you know that that's what bonds you seeing those. , those horrific things.

And having, or being able to share with another human being, your feelings. And I think that's where we're, where we're getting to, where we're now able to maybe share some more of those feelings when before we didn't share any of those feelings really. And I [00:45:00] think a lot of that just in my mind is because not knowing how to share those feelings.

Um, and that could. The way you were raised? Um, mm-hmm. , you know, my childhood wasn't, uh, great. It wasn't horrific. I mean, I had some terrible times in it, but a lot of times it was just, you know, we just have to buck up and get through it, right? So stuff those emotions down and we'll get through it. And I don't think my mom ever really told me any of that.

That's just kind of how I interpreted it and what I did, and. When you get into this career, that's generally what you do. You do the same thing you have. Mm-hmm. , you have that same reaction, you just stuff it down. And the interesting thing that I've learned about first responders and have people on the podcast is there's a huge portion of people getting into the first responder world that have childhood trauma stuff.

And that comes out in the job. [00:46:00] Yeah. And starts manifesting itself in different. Yeah, for sure. That's, and that's something we talk about in this film of how that early childhood impacts, you know, sometimes very similar type scenes. And it, and it just brings up all those feelings from the past that maybe a first responder hasn't ever thought, AB hasn't thought about that in a long time, and all of a sudden, boom, it's there.

You know? And so it's very impactful. Yeah. I know I don't want to get into too many details of your film cuz I want people to like, you know, be enticed to watch it. Um, like I know I am for sure. But if you, if you wrap that film up into like 1, 1, 1 message, what is that message, uh, that you really want to get out?

And I think you've cut touched on this a little bit, but like, what is that message to other people? I think the. The main message that we want to share with this film is that you're not alone. You are not alone, because that's [00:47:00] often what happens with the first responders. I think I'm the only one. In fact, in the film, one of our first responders says that I thought I was the only one.

I thought I was the only one dealing with this stuff, and I didn't know where to. Because I was the only one. And we want people to know that you are not alone what you're facing. There's other people who have faced the exact same thing and sometimes even worse things. And there are people out there who are here to help you.

And all you have to do is ask. All you have to do is reach out and, and, and ask for help. Uh, one of, uh, one of the detectives we interviewed and he was one of my favorite guys. That just a, just a quick story, uh, in him, he, we just kind of, he, I was visiting a police agency in Texas and the guy was taking me around, was like, oh man, we should try to try to catch Mike.

He's been in the business for 30 years. He's a detective, he's on the bomb squad. He's, you know, he's this crusty old detective that [00:48:00] is, you know, has an amazing story and we, we, we kind of caught up to him out on the, on the ground and he was like, I don't wanna be on camera. That's the last thing I want to.

And five minutes later he reluctantly agreed to be on camera, and then he was like, can't use my name, can't use my department. You know, none of that. And two weeks later I got a call from my guy there and he said, Hey, uh, Mike said you can use his name, it's fine. And he came to the premiere and he's in the film and he said, Conrad, thank you for telling, for letting me tell my.

she said, because now every time I tell my story, I heal a little more. It brings a little me a little more of healing to my life when I, when I share that. And I was like, wow, that's, that's powerful. You know? And so sometimes sharing your story can be cathartic, [00:49:00] can be healing. Obviously you wanna share it to the right people.

Uh, but I encourage people to, to consider that, you know, don't just stuff it down. Talk to somebody. And so, back to your original question, you know, the main, main theme of this film is you're not alone. It's okay to ask for help. Yeah. I, I've done a hundred podcasts plus, and. I just realize something that I haven't really realized before when you're talking about I'm not, you know, you're not alone.

I've had my struggles with, you know, suicide and, you know, some P T S D issues and stuff, but I think we're, I'm sorry, it makes me a little emotional. Is. I thought I was alone thinking about that now, looking back, the reason why I thought I was alone, [00:50:00] because I didn't know anybody else close to me that was struggling like I was, everybody else seemed fine.

So that's why it just totally just dawned on me like that's why I, maybe that feeling of alone comes in so much is you, you don't really know anybody else. Or are there maybe they other people out there still struggling close to you, but they're just not sharing it. And I think that's what, for me, that's, I just an epiphany.

That's why I felt alone. and, and I, I, and I don't think you're alone in that. I think that's a universal thing because how many first responders push down those feelings pushed and they don't talk about the stuff that happens offline, you know, because they don't want to show that they got problems.

Right. Yeah. I mean, I used to do that. Sometimes I still do. Don't wanna show that we're struggling. You know, years ago my wife and I struggled financially. We didn't wanna show anybody that we're struggling, you know? And so what? Were the only ones that got behind on the [00:51:00] payment, really? No. Yeah. You know, it, it's kind of that same thing that we just, I think that's where leadership needs to come in and say, Hey, it's okay to talk about these things.

It's okay to share within this group is a safe place. It's a safe place to share. Sometimes toxic environments aren't a safe place. But I think there are agencies around that have peer support, that have, uh, people who can listen and people who are, are, are perhaps even trained to listen and to know how to respond to when you drop the bomb that you're, you know, been drinking, you know, a six pack a day, you know, or been doing whatever.

I think there are people there to listen and if agency leaders can. Put together those type of resources, whether it's peer support or, or have, you know, have, uh, uh, EAPs that are culturally competent that understand Yeah. Your agency. And I think then, um, it can [00:52:00] make a difference. Um, and sometimes it even takes a leader to step in the room.

And this is what this guy did, this guy Mike, at this agency, this detective, he came into the the morning briefing one morning. And the chief asked him, Hey, would you tell your story? And he was like, what? And he told his story to all the captains and lieutenants and all the command staff. And it opened that door for now.

Yeah. To him to share their stories with each other because he made it okay to do that. And sometimes it takes a leader to step up to say, you know what, here's, here's my story. Right? And that will make it okay for others to share. Yeah. Conrad, where can people follow you and follow the, the film and follow your travel and also support you?

How can they do that? Yeah, uh, everything is kind of based on our hub. PTSD 9 1 1 movie.com. Uh, or PTSD nine one [00:53:00] one.com. That's the, that's the website. Uh, you can find us. Uh, all, all our information there we're also on Facebook, p t s d 9 1, 1 movie on all the socials. That's our ha that's our handle for all the socials.

So Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and, and YouTube. We have a YouTube channel that, uh, we have all of our podcasts on and, and starting this summer for our. Tour, our coast to coast bike tour will be posting a video hopefully every day on our bike tour and people can follow us, and we're very soon gonna have an ability to, to, to, to donate toward the bike tour, to help, help support that.

Uh, I don't have that set up yet, but we will have that shortly, uh, where people can help support that. Uh, and so, Yeah, we just encourage you to follow us. Uh, if you, if anyone would like to have the fill, bring, have us bring the film to your area. There's a form on our website there, there's a link that says screenings.

Click on that [00:54:00] link and fill out the form, and my assistant will be in touch with you to, uh, start that conversation. About how to bring the film to your community and make that easy for you to, to, to, to make that happen. So we look forward to this year having these events all across the country. Uh, then on Oct, I'm just gonna throw this out there publicly, uh, October 28th is National First Responder Day.

Our, our plan is to have our first streaming event of the film, the public streaming event of the film, uh, that you'll pay a small ticket fee to attend, and we'll do some live things with that and see the whole film. And then it'll be released to the streamer's, Amazon and wherever else that it'll sit.

But, uh, for now, you can, you can book a screening. You can attend a screening. We'll be in. Oh, all over the place in the next few months. So, uh, but if you wanna know about the tour, the bike tour, check out our website and, uh, you can see where all the cities are [00:55:00] gonna be in. Awesome. Well, thank you Conrad, for so much for being on today.

And thank you for taking on. You know, the. Documentary to share the, to the world of what first responders are facing and dealing with and how they can better themselves. Um, once again, another great guest that sees a need and, uh, jumps in and fills it. I really appreciate that. Well, thank you so much for having me.

It's been a pleasure to be on your show. Yeah, thank you. Thanks again for listening. Don't forget to rate and review the show wherever you access your podcast. If you know someone that would be great on the show, please get a hold of our host, Jerry Dean Lund through the Instagram handles at Jerry Fire and Fuel, or at Enduring the Badge Podcast.

Also by visiting the show's website, enduring the badge podcast.com for additional methods of contact and up to date information regarding the show. [00:56:00] The views and opinions expressed during the show solely represent those of our host and the current episodes guest.